The San Francisco man who last month anonymously publicized a campaign to improve working conditions at Apple’s retail stores has now gone public himself. Cory Moll, 30, works at a Bay Area retail store, and in an email to the media today says, “I’m coming out.” Since his original email announcing the movement on Apple retail’s 10th anniversary, Moll says, “Coworkers from all across the country and around the world have written in. The stories people have told so far are becoming a giant echo, and it resonates in a way that has motivated me to become a harbinger of change. They want this.” He makes it clear that Apple employees love their jobs and the “experience and delight we get to share with our customers.” But Moll adds, “We have become increasingly disrespected by management at all levels of the retail management structure.” In an exclusive interview with IFO in the lobby of a downtown San Francisco hotel, Moll expanded upon the movement, saying that while there are issues affecting all of Apple’s stores, improvements and any unionization will have to be made store-by-store, accomplished by individual employee actions.
Moll has worked multiple positions within Apple’s stores, at more than one location, and in more than one state. He’s seen inequities around him and has also been the subject of them. Over the past two years, he’s considered how working conditions at the stores could be improved, but was only recently motivated to act.
“I didn’t think that I’d ever be in a position like this,” Moll said of being the voice for 30,200 retail employees. “You never think that, almost 30 years old, and I’d be launching a project to change conditions at a major company.” He’s joked to others, “I might be the next Norma Rae.”
Moll deliberately picked Apple retail’s 10th anniversary to announce the movement. “It was really important to come forward on the anniversary, because at a time where we’re celebrating the success of Apple’s retail stores, I wanted to highlight that, on the other side of the curtain, the employees are facing all sorts of issues.”
He cited unfair pay practices, inadequate benefits, unfair promotion practices and favoritism as some of the issues being discussed.
His message was targeted both for the public and Apple retail employees. “While people are focusing on Apple’s retail stores, I want (the public) to know what else is going on.” At the same time, “I want to let employees know if they’re experiencing any kind of issues, that there’s this movement, that we hope to address some of those things for them.”
“The goal is to get people talking about it, to get them to explore what’s really going on in their stores.”
The movement isn’t trying to take any of the shine off Apple’s brand. “By no means was it trying to take away any of the limelight from Apple. They have quite a big limelight, and they don’t need anything taken away from that,” Moll says.
In fact, Moll says employees are very loyal to the company and have a high degree of satisfaction. So far, he’s received email from about 100 stores in the chain, representing employees from all job positions and all countries. “All up and down the U.S. and even abroad,” Moll says, including stores in Japan, Australia and several in Europe. The employees are asking him for information about the movement and telling him stories from their store.
“From the email messages that I’ve received from employees, everybody loves their jobs,” Moll says. “Everybody loves getting up in the morning and doing awesome stuff that we get to do.” But the message is, “It’s how we’re treated for that, how we’re paid for that. It’s the management side of Apple that we have an issue with. It has nothing to do with our jobs, what we’re paid to do.”
The Issues
Among the specific issues is ambiguity about how company policies and regulations are administered and enforced, Moll says. Many policies are set at the corporate level, but regional and store managers have discretion to change the rules or enforce them differently. “I’m still exploring whether or not that seems to be a pattern in all the stores, or if it’s isolated to a handful of stores,” he says.
Even pay has its variabilities. “They don’t really have a pay scale. I believe that’s largely up to each region and each market,” Moll says. Like most national companies, Apple’s pay rates vary according by region. But unlike most companies, store managers seem to have the ability to hire new employees at rates beyond the range, Moll says.
“In a few cases I’ve heard there seems to be some inequality of pay based on gender,” Moll says, “which is something this movement will highlight.” He also hopes that spotlight will empower the affected employees to take action.
“One of the goals is to make sure that people are being hired at a fair wage across the board,” Moll explains, “to make sure they are being given the right expectation, like wage increases, which typically happen in the reviews in the fall time.”
Apple’s popularity also creates issues for employees. Increased customer traffic by locals and overseas visitors has put a burden on the staff. “As that traffic increases, it allows for things to slip through, such as breaks and lunches.” He says Genius Bar teams have “appointment after appointment after appointment,” and sometimes are not able to take their breaks on time, or are being asked to stay late to finish paperwork or other tasks. The back-of-house inventory team has to deal with increased shipments of products, tracking them from delivery to sales on the floor.
“We can be fired for any or no reason at any time.”
Meanwhile, Moll says Apple is hiring more part-time employees and cutting back individual hours. Worse, he says managers are demanding high availability from part-timers, even though their hours are low. “The expectation they’ve set for part-time people is being full-time minded,” Moll explains. Since the part-timers are committing to work almost any time of day or week, they can’t schedule second jobs to pick up additional money. “They want us to be available so much, that’s it’s difficult to get an outside job to pick up that slack. Some people are finding themselves in really difficult financial situations because of that.”
Moll also says there’s a lot of “favoritism among store management teams, or un-favoritism,” when good-performing employees are unfairly evaluated. “They try to find ways to get rid of those employees, where they may be scrutinized more than others,” he says. Apple uses a policy of “fearless feedback,” but sometimes employees get pulled aside and are “lambasted” by a manager without any opportunity to provide their side of what happened.
“Having a union, having a contract, would outline in a clear way a procedures for situations like that, to ensure that employees are given the benefit of the doubt, to offer them an opportunity to explain the situation and to not have to face a such harsh talking-to right off the bat,” Moll says.
Moll also points to the employees’ at-will employment as an issue. “That’s something that a lot of people are unnerved about. We can be fired for any or no reason at any time.” He notes that at-will also allows employees to resign without notice. Belonging to a union would provide some protection against arbitrary termination. “It would have to be Apple saying, here’s the reason, black-and-white, in writing what happened and why we’re letting you go.”
Just having a contract would be an improvement, he notes. “A contract would have everything in writing, maybe even right down to the particular policies that they have to work under, so that there’s no ambiguity as to what’s expected of an employee. It benefits the workers in every way to have a contract, even if it’s something as simple as doing away with at-will.”
Beyond those specifics, Moll says the employees who have contacted him simply feel disconnected from the company. “The things that employees are emailing me make me want to do something for those who feel they’ve been disenfranchised, that they feel they’re just another person who works at the company, they’re not…they just work there.”
Unionization?
Are Moll and others on a path to unionization? “It’s both a unionization movement and a work improvement movement,” he explains. “It’s the beginning. It’s far from an implementation of a union yet. It’s definitely going to be a store-by-store movement.”
He stresses that the dissatisfaction may not be universal, and pushing forward will by done by individuals at each store. “If they find they’re encountering these issues at their store, it’s gotta be them that step up. Because the problems may not be happening at one store, but they may be just rampant at another store. It’s gotta be up to those stores, those teams, those people at those stores, to come forward and speak up if they want that change.”
So first, Moll says, “The goal is to get people talking about it, to get them to explore what’s really going on in their stores, and to empower them to make that change.”
He hopes the company’s reaction will be positive, but adds, “It’s very hard to say.” He’s researched comments from Steve Jobs on the subject of unions, finding only remarks the CEO made about teachers and tenure. Jobs apparently disagrees with the concept that teachers should have guaranteed jobs based on length of service.
“I’d agree with him in that sense,” Moll says. “Performance has to still be there. If someone’s not performing well, it’s time to correct it or move on.” Taking that further, he says, “I don’t think any employer or a group of employees would want to have something that says you’re guaranteed tenure, even if you don’t perform well—that doesn’t work.”
His message to Jobs: “I would hope that Steve Jobs would at least align with the kind of issues we’re facing as employees. And at the very least, work with us in the stores that want this to go forward, to let us have our voice, to not engage in activity that would ensue in drama.”
Moll also points to Apple’s code of conduct of its suppliers. “The suppliers need to have a guarantee of freedom of association for their employees,” he says “So it would be very critical for them to expect that from their suppliers, but to say, ‘You can’t have that at our stores,’ or to put out messages to be contradictory to that.”
What Path Now?
The next step is exploratory, Moll says, increasing awareness through the distribution of information, both on the Web and passed from employee to employee. It’s that latter category that may create some conflicts with Apple. Moll says Apple’s corporate policy is, “Apple employees are not permitted to distribute literature during work time or in any work area.” But that policy seems to conflict with federal laws that regulate union organizing activities.
“The interpretation of this right now, I’m finding out, is that it’s not allowed,” Moll says. “I’m trying ways to make it so people who want to do that won’t be fired for it.” He says employees will be finding ways to distribute information off-the-clock or in non-work areas. “How do people distribute the flyers about this, when management is interpreting this as kind of a blanket of—you can’t do this anywhere?”
Ominously, Moll says there are many employees willing to be disciplined in order to test the company’s literature distribution policy, “Myself included.”
In the San Francisco area, Moll is working with what he calls a “prominent national union” to help organize activities at his store. He says it’s very likely that union will also be a point of contact locally for other stores. “We haven’t gotten to that part yet,” he says.
Asked if he had a message for Sr. V-P Retail Ron Johnson, Moll was low-key. “I would love to be able to meet with him at some point, when more people come forward, when more issues are identified.” He stresses that there should be local store discussions about issues before moving forward.
In fact, those discussion might end talk about unionization, he notes. “To be able to talk and say, here’s our issues, not with the expectation that anything will be done, but engage in a dialog that might inspire change at other stores, which kind of counteracts the whole point of having a union in the first place, where employees come together and they decide what change they want to see, they negotiate with Apple and try to come to common ground on different issues.”
Moll was measured in his words during the interview, and seems in no hurry to make things happen. “This is going to take time,” he says. “It’s word of mouth initially. It’s going to take at least one person in each store to come forward and speak up for those changes, like I have in my store.” Employees will hear about what is happening, and maybe empower them to step up and be a leader, he says.
“When I launched this movement, I certainly didn’t have the expectation that I would have all the stores want to storm the gates to bring about change,” Moll says. “But knowing that there is a good number of stores that want this change is encouraging, and will definitely motivate me to continue doing this.”
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{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
If this guy wants to be taken seriously he needs to check his subject-verb agreement!
Well, it looks like there’s going to be an opening at a bay area apple store within the next few days. :-(
My years with Apple retail were a delight. What was the secret as to why? Easy: I worked hard and was good at my job.
I embraced the job, worked hard, didn’t complain but rather suggested, rose into management quickly, was surrounded by technology I enjoyed, made friends and made good money all the while. I left my job amicably (to care for my very ill mother) and consider going back someday. I have many friends who were hired as a specialist at the same time I was, worked just as hard and now have Apple corporate jobs. Again, they worked hard showed enthusiasm and made themselves valuable to Apple.
The Apple Store employees I have known that were unhappy with Apple and their jobs did none of this. They were either lazy, felt entitled or thought they were taking job that was more than a traditional retail job that actually required selling stuff to customers.
Yeah man, totally agree. We work in IT, these kinds of things are what is expected of us. You get into this kind of job because you enjoy it. If you want a normal sales job, then go get one. Real IT enthusiastics (you get what I’m trying to say, can’t get spell check to change to the word I want) know that it’s a high stress job. We work long hours, but we get to learn really cool stuff in the process. I don’t know what you were expected when you took the job, but selling Apple products is probably really easy. People usually know what they want when they go into an Apple store. If they want to know more about a product, you tell them. Apple is not a hard sell, albeit they are expensive and you might have to try some convincing. I’ve been in IT for 10 years now. From Junior to Senior. Not in management yet, but getting there. I’ve got to where I am now because I enjoy it, I don’t feel entitled, but I work damn hard and get rewarded handsomely for it.
You know, just saying. You have to be in IT because you love it. You can’t do it just because “It’s a job”. You have to feel it. It’s not an easy life, I know, I’ve had 3 nervous breakdowns in the last 2 years, but I’m back on my feet and kicking ass. What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger (sorry for the cliche). If your heart isn’t it, then you should probably look at something else. I often find that sales people in general don’t really know the true meaning of being in the IT Profession.
we get it, you work fucking IT..who gives a shit
Very informative, and I do hope to hear more about this as the issue progresses–as I’m sure it will, one way or another. But what’s up with the randomly bolded words?
FrMRApple,
I’m curious about how long ago you worked for Apple retail. I too worked there and embraced my job, worked hard and didn’t complain. Didn’t complain until I moved up and saw what my pay increase was. I worked for Apple for almost 16 months. I absolutely loved my job and only left for a higher paying job so I could support my family.
I started as a part time specialist and quickly worked my way in the Genius Room. When I started, I thought the pay was generous for a part time retail employee. When I advanced into a position with much more responsibility I expected a little more compensation. My pay increase was 10% and I was told I could advance about 3-5% annually from that point. Mind you, I was working in my new position for 2 weeks before the store manager told me what my pay increase would be. I expressed my concern and was told by management they would do their best to raise my salary. Never happened. Members of the Genius team hired three years before me made about 50-75% more than me. Given the 3-5% pay increase annually, it’s very easy to see they were started on a much higher pay scale to begin with.
Apple expects much of its full time retail employees, and I gave much. I wish I were still there today but simply could not afford the low income any longer. I departed shortly after one Genius, who left for better wages. After other members of the Genius team expressed the willingness to leave Apple for higher wages, that entire team received a raise. Why did it take so much, the threat of losing 75% of the Genius team, to get management to really go to bat for better compensation?
I know glassdoor.com is not completely accurate, but my pay was WELL below the lowest reported wage for my position. Apple retail loves to tell the employees that it is not typical retail. They love to talk about how different they are, but as soon as one mentions wages the first response is ALWAYS, “it’s retail”. They can’t have it both ways.
It appears your big concern or complaint about the job is money. Comparing what you got paid with what others got paid and if you do that, you will never be satisfied with a job. So many things play into what an employee is paid at a job- especially in retail. There ar tons of people in 9-5 type non -retail jobs that feel they are woefully underpaid as well so that complaint, while tangible for the employee trying to make a living, goes beyond Apple Retail.
The economy, the rate of growth, and even what people will accept to be part of the organization all play into pay scale. I can easily see people who get a job at an Apple retail store now starting off with a lower pay scale than those of us around 2002-2005. In the beginning it was a tough sell to convince highly qualified and talented people to work a retail job- what with it’s odd hours and weekend work. This would go a lomg way in explaining why your coworkers get more in their paycheck than you. Not to say the pay scale now is a pittance, but if it’s lower it is because it now closer to what retail pay is in general but probably still higher than most.
As to why your pay rate is so much lower than others, well I don’t know why but how are your reviews? Are you a “go to” type of genius? Do you do things no one else will, things of or wants to do? Do you make sales at all? Our really good geniuses- even those in the genius room- would pull out a good AppleCare sale or a big computer sale as a result if a repair. Those MG’s were rewarded with higher pay and more opportunities. I certainly don’t mean to second guess your competence at your job, I am just trying to look at things from a perspective of a manager. A 10% pay increase is fantastic and almost unheard of in any job, especially retail. And an annual pay increase of up to 5% is really, REALLY unheard of. Especially in this economy. Even though they told you wou would get it (or more likely that with consistent good reviews and high metrics it was possible to) it is unheard of and unrealistic to give out that high of a pay I crease on a yearly basis. I fault your manager for setting expectations.
I know for myself as a Mac Specialist (and later as a manager) was a guy that other specialists and managers would come to help selling AppleCare, Mobile Me and generally bringing up metrics and items sold per transaction. I was valuable and respected in the store. Even if I didn’t get paid as much as I thought I should as a specialist (who does think they get paid enough?!?) me being good at my job and a full- on team player made my job really easy. The harder you work, the better you are, the easier your job is.
The reasoning “It’s retail” is very valid. Trust me, while Apple is retail, it most certainly is not typical retail. The big cure for Mr. Moll’s unhappiness can easily be found in a six month stint as an employee of McDonalds, Best Buy or any department store. There he will see what typical retail is and it is nothing like working for Apple. All my reasons and explanations here are by no means 100% true for everyone but my Appe Retail experience was very positive and these thoughts may help explain why I advanced and enjoyed my job so much.
u speak the truth man..good job..i had to leave apple as a genius too for a much better paying job..waaaaay less stressful too
This guy is full of paradoxes. Employees love their jobs, yet they’re not satisfied. Welcome to the real world! If you think Apple’s prices are high now, just think about how high they would be with a union running the stores. I would never set foot in another Apple store ever again if they became unionized. Union drones don’t work for the company. They work for the union, and their dues goes to every Democrat hack trying to run for office. I worked at an Apple store for over 4 years. I loved working for Apple, but hey… not every day was Shangrila. Sometimes I had bad days. Sometimes, I didn’t like who I was working with. You just have to deal with it. We’re not entitled somehow to have everything be nice an perfect. If you’re not satisfied, then quit!
Ditto dude. You know what reality is. I think Unions would destroy Apple retail stores. Fight for your rights yourself. I know our Employment Act in South Africa heavily favours the employee, but we still have to fight for ourselves. Work hard, get paid well and party hard. I would give anything to work in an Apple retail store in SF.
Don’t agree with the Democrat thing, but hey, we can’t all be perfect :P
The only issue that the staff at my store has is space and noise. We are handling like 4 times the traffic that our store was designed for. And we seriously need a quieter space for classes and the like. Our customers constantly complain about it and we beg them to go tell the mall their complaints as well as the company. One guy screamed about how he was going to ‘email Steve Jobs himself’ and told like 10 other folks the email address. I didn’t stop him. In fact I encouraged all of them and to pass it on to all their friends that feel the same way.
But our management is fine, no one has an issue with the availability rules and those that do a good job get hours and everyone knows that’s the score.
if there was anything that we’d fuss about, it is that part time staff don’t get sick hours so they come to work hacking and sneezing. But we fuss about that monthly to HR and eventually they will get enough complaints that it will happen. It’s how we got them health care last year.
The noise is why I don’t go into Apple stores anymore. I just can’t take it. Most Apple stores need to be the size of a Best Buynto accommodate all the goings on. At my store we would have lots of classes and even GB appointments before store hours and that helped a lot.
What a joke. This asshat either hasn’t done any real research, or is smart enough to spin it.
By banning all outside literature in the store, they effectively ban union literature legally. LEGALLY, you idiot.
Apple pays higher wages than ANY other retailer around. I pay my asst managers at my new job less than I paid p/t specialists at Apple.
Most of the world is at-will employment, and if you think unionization will help this, you’re out of your mind. Managers in union shops can still fire anyone at any time – they just need a clearer paper trail thannon-union shops.
Shut up, work hard, keep your nose clean and see what happens. Good luck with your new-found fame. We’ll all forget your name in a few hours.
I want to be clear on one thing, I do not support unionizing Apple retail employees. When the job no longer satisfies time to move to a new one. I was satisfied with everything but pay, so I moved on to a new job, problem solved. I do think employees made more a few years ago than they do today.
Sounds like this guy just realized he works in corporate America. 90% of us go through this everyday. If he doesn’t like it he might want to start his own computer company
Worked at an Apple Store for over 6 and a half years, part time. I loved it. My only goal was to have giddy customers walk out of the store wowed by their new purchases of awesome Apple technology. If I wasn’t so busy with so much responsibility and travel in my regular job, I’d still be working there, even though I didn’t have a free Saturday for that entire time. I felt that I was always respected, even as a “lowly” part-time employee, and my complicated scheduling needs were always addressed with good communication. Granted, some of the managers were much younger that me and at times inexperienced, but that is expected as they grow into their jobs. Those that didn’t improve weren’t managers at the store very long. Bottom line, Apple Stores are the best retail jobs anywhere.
This guy is out to lunch. Unionization of Apple Retail would be a huge mistake. It would take away a lot of what customers expect: enthusiastic employees who sell the products because of their love for the brand. Unionization only complicates that, and diminishes from customers service by diluting the loyalty and focus of the store employees.
This guys is on and off with all his items. I was a Senior Store Manager for over 5 years and got the at will see ya papers. I was able to ask why but they said that for reason under disclosure i was let go. After 3 months of asking and fighting I gave up. We did do what he said if someone was performing we rewarded them. IF not ride them till they quit. I was part of it but my store manager was the one who was the problem in our store. I have been gone for over a year and they just now got rid of him after finding out that he was the root and not us.
I think that something needs to be done. IT is a great place to work we do work the team member to death and expect them to give more after. I know about retail i have worked it for over 20 years but at times it was out of hand. Pay was great I took a job that was 50% and was now doing more. So cannot complain about that.
I hope that something is done so that more people do not go thru what some of had gone thru. At least have a hearing to the at will parts because to say we do not disclose is BS
I’m a strong believer in that if you don’t like your job then quit. That’s exactly what I did after working at Apple retail for over 3.5 years. When I worked at apple the problems were so bad and morale was extremely low. Friends of mine who still work there report that the store scored a -87% on their Net Promoter for the people survey. I didn’t even realize a negative number was statistically possible!! Anyways here is a list of some of the things I did not like about the company, and I believe many of them are company wide.
-Managers who do absolutely nothing except sit in the office with the door closed and shop online for designer bags
-Management turning a blind eye to cases of harassment
-Extreme sales pressure with absolutely no incentive to sell. Apple products are easy to sell and corporate and management realize that, the products pretty much sell themselves. However we must push 3 add on services onto our customers. I agree that these 3 services we have to sell do have their merits however based on the demographics that your store serves, many customers will have absolutely no need for it but you stil have to push these services to avoid termination
-Ridiculous availability requirements for part time employees
-Consistent scheduling errors and refusal of management to fix them
-When the recession hit, employees were fired for being more than 6 minutes late for a shift that was scheduled two years prior, in order to cut payroll. At the same time, our revenues and profits were increasing
-New employees were hired at FAR higher wages than existing employees
-Absolutely no benefits for part time employees
I had a lot of fun at my job before things turned really bad. Apple was definitely an exciting company to work for and they definitely hire a very fun crowd. I worked hard at my job and always exceeded my metrics but the job just became too toxic and stressful to maintain while going to school. I now work for in another sales environment that is commission and believe it or not, the sales pressure is WAY lower than what I experienced at Apple. I’m always less hours than what Apple demanded from me, and I’m earning way more than what I previously earned at Apple.
This employee is naive in thinking that he can change anything about Apple’s practices. Apple is a pompous company that thinks they are right about everything. In addition, working at Apple is like living in a totalitarian regime. If you speak out against the regime, they will destroy you. That is exactly what will happen to this employee. He will be terminated before he even gets to do anymore legal research. I hope he sees the light and finds a job where he will be truly happy.
A lot of those sound like individual store problems. Bad management can be found in all lines of work and can make a bad experience. It is very telling what you complain about: People being fired for being late (Gasp! Imagine that! Fired for not showing up to their job on time!), pay scale for new employees (maybe they deserved to be paid more), having to actually sell products that you personally don’t see the need for (your job is to FIND the need and value for that customer and, frankly, make money for the store) and the avalibility needs for a retail job (Retial business is notoriously tough on personal schedules. It’s the nature of retail since it is open 7 days a week often 12 hours a day)
Another very telling thing you say is how Apple products sell themselves. While interviewing applicants if anyone ever said to me “the products sell themselves” I would immediately put them in the “do not hire” pile. If an employee works their job under the lazy mantra “the product sells itself” it shows he/she has no real value and no interest or ability to bring something to the store.
Like I have said before in this discussion, ones experience and succsess at Apple Retail (and every other job out there) hinges on ones ability to perform well in their job (both in metrics and attitude) and embrace the Apple Retail experience.
It appears you found another job that is more appropriate for your needs and wants, which is good for both you and Apple Retial.
Things can happen that are out of people’s control, which may cause them to be late for work. I think firing someone for being late ONCE, TWO YEARS ago is taking it a little too far. Also, I’m perfectly aware of why the new hires are being paid more, the minimum wages went up in our area, but management and corporate REFUSES to review and adjust our wages according to market standards. I’ve also worked in retail for over 5 years and I used to be a scheduling manager before I came to Apple. I’m well aware of what is considered reasonable for part timers, what was required from the part timers at our store was simply not reasonable in many cases.
Bad management will be in place somewhere at every job but it definitely seems to be part of the corporate culture at Apple. Over the course of 3.5 years, I’ve seen a lot of turnover in management at my store and in the market but instead of getting better the problems keep getting worse. Also when Net promoter for our people first started, our store was in the bottom two, in the entire world, but at least our score was still in the positive. Now it has fallen into the negative, if the problem lies with store management, it is the responsibility of somebody at corporate to take action to fix this. Judging by the the stark decline in net promoter scores, it doesn’t seem as if they care.
I also didn’t say that the services that Apple sells are useless, I use many of them myself and continue to buy them at full price even though I don’t work there anymore. To think that 60% of our customers want APP and 50% want one to one in my particular market is just flawed. And I think the numbers speak for themselves. All of the stores in my market have gone through tremendous turnover in both management and red zone staff, yet NONE of the stores in the region have ever come close to meeting their metrics in the last 3 years.
The attitude that product sells themselves at Apple is very true, it is very rare to have to convince someone to buy a macbook, ipad or iphone. It’s those metric services that need selling. In addition, I didn’t come up with that line. It was one of the corporate trainers at Apple that came up with that, you might have actually seen him in one of the training videos or encountered him at your store.
Also being successful at Apple is extremely easy. If you can sell, you will go places as thats all they care about. I was encouraged by managers to apply for promotions all the time but declined as I didn’t want to commit myself to full time employment at Apple.
And you are completely right, to enjoy your job at apple you need to embrace the culture and the experience. A culture similar to a totalitarian regime, where you have absolutely no mind and are told exactly how to think. It is definitely an environment where dissent was not allowed, if you voiced any type of concern, management will immediately find a way to fire you or ride you until you quit. The only people that I know that actually enjoy(ed) their job at Apple were people who would honestly believe that Steve Jobs descended from the heavens if you told them to.
I work there. He is completely “sue happy” and quite the cry baby. He’d sue anyone who walked passed him just to get free money out of a situation. Some people just don’t want to work hard for deserved accomplishments.
Wow!
This person is right on the mark. I used to work at Apple. I was a favoritism promotion several times, having never having to post for positions. As for time off, lunch breaks, etc: we as managers were routinely directed (off the record) to ignore breaks unless the employees whined about it.
Those part timers would have their hours cut back, and full timers would be given shifts that made work life balance impossible.
The purpose of the company was and is, profit. That is the true soul of Apple.
Of course the purpose of the company is profit. You being surprised and bitter that a retail store chain would have any othe purpose says volumes about why you are down on Apple retail.
FrMRApple,
I am not bitter. What I learned about Apple has helped me in so many ways in my next career.
I will never be biter about my time at Apple.
Joe
Bad Management is rampant at Apple Retail. Because Apple only hires managers from retail. Doesn’t matter what you sold at your last job. Sneakers, Olive Oil, whatever, Apple will hire you and as a result is the same as any other chain. People are misled into thinking that by joining Apple you join a culture. No such thing exists anymore. Not for years. It’s retail with all the injustice, bad management, disrespect, and lack of acknowledgment that goes with the job. The real trouble comes when you read an Apple posted job description that positions the place as nirvana. Of course it just a job. Love the products, but the job sucks.
And yes, I quit. But not before I sent a detailed account of all the destructive behavior to Ron. Did he care? Not too much. There’s too much money being made. Good luck Cory.
His statements closely mirror my experience. I was full time red zone for two years, was the only person in my store to hit all the metrics every quarter during that entire span and had the respect of my colleagues (was eventually asked to rewrite our training manual and train all the new hires).
Apple employees aren’t retail employees. They’re expected to know a lot more, be more professional, and the bar as far as effort required is much higher than most anywhere else I’ve worked (including all of the professional non-sales positions I’ve held). They should be paid more – and in the case of geniuses, quite a bit more.
Vertical promotions are rare. For its management, Apple hires from the outside. The problem is, they just don’t tell you that – they allude to a promise with a bright future with the company, room to move up, etc. For people with families who need gowth positions, this is a dangerous thing to promise.
The problem he’s trying to address is real – he’s trying to create something reliable as a reference for employees (a contract) so that management no longer has the ability to give you a raise percentage, promotion, a pink slip, without giving you a reason and a path otherwise. Apple would still get to expect a ton from it’s employees but there’s nothing unfair or lazy or communist or whatever about seeking clarity from your management. Day to day at apple IS great – meaning working with customers is great. But the big picture stuff needs a lot of work. I and ao many other people who were super good to and for the company just ended up leaving as we began to realize that apple puts a wall between the management and the peons (management get sales bonuses for example).
I will have to agree with some disheartening experiences. While I continue to bust my tail and meet all metrics above everyone else in the red zone, Ive felt shafted at the equality of positions offered.
Apple views the “EXPERT” position as an equal carrer path along with Creative and Genius, however, Expert<Genius/Creative
A promoton to expert EXPECTS you to be the best of the best, and have a drive to learn the stuff outside of work naturally due to the 95% of the time your expected to be selling stuff. Also, at least in our store, they are paid less than that of the Genius and Creative starting wage. It even says in the Expert job description "Early adopter of products" with no given advantage. Also, if these positions are to be considered equal career paths, why do both creative and genius have team statistics they can use to base their performance against other stores while Expert is a "your doing good in our store" kind of thing and your just included in the mix of red zone employee statistics.
So lets talk about what it looks like for an Expert promotion vs a Creative, Genius promotion
Expert promotion = a raise and a pat on the back…. continuing with the same tasks but carrying more responsibility
Creative/Genius = LARGER raise, trip to cupertino PAID with per diem (often including free copies of expensive software), acquiring certifications that were paid for…. to come back to a brand new job with a complete change of pace, protected training time to learn yourself. And often times held in a higher regard from customers also due to the noticeable difference in position.
I COMPLETELY value my job, am respected as a leader and go to source in my store, I just feel a disconnect from what corporate says and what actually is in place.
Unionizing is not the answer. I dont know what is. And understanding that we are easily replaceable is a key point in realize our worth. But the message being delivered to us is far from the truth of what is going on
I have been working at Apple Retail since 2007 at two different stores, both in different cities. We are treated like dirt. Management is always hired from Target, Starbucks, or Gap and know nothing about Apple, it products, or its services. Apple has become the Wal-Mart for retail. We give our customers whatever they want and do anything to keep them happy. None of the purchase policies really exist. You can return things that are months old and management doesn’t care. What’s the point of being trained on the policies if you’re going to let each one slide when an upset customer comes in. We shouldn’t baby our customers. They need to understand that they can’t always get what they want. The Store Leader is never supportive and is always locked in the office. I transferred to a new store two months ago and I have only seen my manager twice in those two months. We get pulled into the office for bad customer responses because the store is too crowded and because of wait time. The managers tell us to work faster but then we get bad responses that the sale was rushed. Apple Stores are the busiest stores in the mall and we can’t help that. There is nothing we can do to make it go any faster. There is a lot of favoritism. My previous store manager was gay and he promoted seven gay employees who had been with the company less than a year over heterosexual employees who had much more experience. I’ve been told by my management staff that I am the hardest working employee at my store and I have always been number one in revenue since I started, yet I have NEVER been promoted. I even trained new employees for certain positions that I applied for and the promotion was given to them instead of me. HR makes horrible decisions as well. You can be fired for anything at any given time with no explanation. AN employee accused me of stealing and when I went to HR they said, “What do you want me to do about it?” This same employee even confessed to another he wanted to do anything to get me fired and the other employee got it in writing. I presented it to my manager and he said he can’t do anything about it. I even went as far as to getting screenshots of text messages from his phone saying this and presented it to HR. Still, nothing was done. I then left and went to another store. This employee was then promoted after I left. My manager was protecting this employee at all costs! There is extreme pressure on AppleCare! I was pulled into the office for not selling enough AppleCare on my iPhones. iPhones are the hardest to get AppleCare. People buy new phones every year so what’s the point in wasting $70 for AppleCare when they are selling it in a year. Travelers from other countries buy iPhones at full price for $600-$700 and they still expect you to get AppleCare on them. NO ONE WANTS IT FOR IPHONES! I love my job, but I can’t stand the practices put in place by management. Apple Retail needs to change.
The only thing I agree with in your silly rant is about the gay culture. I saw gay people be promoted way beyond their capabilities at Apple and it was irksome. Nothing against gay people, but there is a very strong gay presence all the way up the retail chain including (especially) the corporate retail folks. Every retail training session I attended was staffed full of over-the-top flaming gays, and it was truly entertaining, educational and worthwhile, but I do fear that there’s a bit of “let’s promote the queers” going on there. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
All the “concerns” are just ways to do a better job. If you are willing to work OT when necessary and stay up on the newest trends in an industry that is in constant change. A crowded store is a good thing; not a bad one. The Genius Bar scheduling an appointment after one is finished is called WORK. You may not like having a busy job but you asked them for a job and everyone is replaceable. I worked for Apple for many years and they are a demanding company but a good company.
How can this guy say he is under paid? What did he exspect from a retial job? The minimum wage is San Fran is $9.92 – and he is paid $14.00 and hour. Apple is paying 41% higher than they are required by law. Sounds like his guy is a big CRY BABY!!!
You are no “Norma Rae”…….
If you are that talented go find another full-time job somewhere else, where you think conditions will be better. Good Luck!
While I have often conflicting feelings about the benefits (or not) of unions, I certainly can agree that change needs to happen. This certainly should have its focus on the store level (as no two are alike), but it should also have some sort of corporate oversight to ensure that changes are being made.
I say this having brought some of these concerns to my senior Store Manager in the past (as did others), only to have his ego and genuine oh-now-your-just-being-silly-I-don’t-need-to-change attitude disregard them for the better part of five years.
Things ultimately did get better at our store, but only after the manager in question was transferred to a new, larger store in our market. Coincidentally, these concerns have now been raised by new hires there as well.
Regrettably, when approached about the lack of resolution on the matter, the Regional Manager would only push the dialogue back between the Employees and the Store Manager, continuing the dance.
Those who choose to badmouth unions with unsubstantiated blanket statements really don’t have a clue. Unions are the reason we (generally) enjoy safety rules, benefits, 40 hour work weeks, child-labor regulations, and much more which made for a strong middle class in America. The strong anti-union sentiment echos those days when Henry Ford had club-wielding union-busters fighting any attempts at organization, and even worse went on in the coal-mining regions. The reality is that, following WW II, progressive corporate managers embraced the union movement as a tool of increased productivity. It made sense to have understandable working regulations and a codified channel of redress of grievances to increase worker satisfaction. A happy worker is a more productive worker. To think otherwise is to believe that all people are lazy, unmotivated by personal pride and pleasure in what they do, and uncooperative without exception. That’s just a bunch of crap.
The problems unions typically encounter is that rather than being the vision of enlightened understanding, they become top-heavy with overpaid power-hungry corporate wanna-bes only interested in lining their own pockets who are dealing with very like-minded corporate counterparts on the other side of the table. Greed, not money, is the root of all evil, and when there are two opposing classes of the greedy trying to divvy up one pie, it makes for a very sad situation.
In an ideal world share-holders would be interested in the long-term viability of the corporate profit rather than simply the quarterly bottom-line bonanza expectations that modern investment expectations make normal. Corporate leaders would be interested in fostering an environment where labor can flourish to the point of having satisfying and positive outlooks based on working conditions and rewards. Having a union-member on every corporate board would be a great way to start such an atmosphere of unified goals.
Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. Bad management is rampant in any and every corporate structure, from largest to smallest, no matter how noble the intentions set forth in the corporate mission statement.
In my tenure as a Specialist I’ve seen both the very negative conditions described by many here, and I have seen a very strong and positive change effected when an essentially wholesale change in management occurred. The new management team made it clear from the beginning that they were/are interested in high-performance outcomes from all employees, and that they were willing to do their part in a positive and supportive way to make it so. One of the GREAT things that they have done is to institute a constant presence on the store floor, from our top store manager down, including our Market Leader when present in the store. I can honestly say that I have never before worked with such a competent and respect worthy management team as I now do with Apple.
Does that mean that I don’t believe that Apple Retail should be unionized? No. Nor does it mean that I believe that it should be. What I believe is that Apple should be as creative and game-changing in their employee relations as they are in retail in general. I believe that there should a much more open atmosphere in which issues can be worked out where all parties are present to hear the same words spoken. I believe that compensation of all employees from the top down should be an open book, and the math used in making those determinations should be public knowledge within the company. Certainly it is normal that market conditions dictate higher wages in SF or NYC than in… well, some of the more normal market locations. Apple draws people who love the product and the company, but you can’t live on love. It’s true that they have their choice of thousands of applicants for dozens of positions, but that doesn’t mean they should treat those who make the cut for whatever reason like chattel. Apple should be the best paying job in retail because it is the most demanding job in retail, and when you see what a Specialist has to really do to be as high a performance individual as expert in his role as Johnathan Ives is in his, you would never again have the gall to call what they do as being a check-out flunky. I dare any one of you who doesn’t believe that to try and make you numbers with that attitude. I make my numbers, and I come home exhausted from doing so, bringing years of customer service/sales/technical consultation experience to the job every time I hit the floor. Yes, I even make my iPhone APP numbers in a more working-class market than you’ll find at Fifth Avenue.
Bottom-line, I’m thrilled to be working for the world’s tech leader which also happens to be the world’s most respected brand. I’ve taken my licks; been near desperation under the hand of genuinely sub-standard management, and am over-joyed to be now on a team which is guided by truly professional management staff. It may not last forever, but boy is great while it’s here.
There much more I could offer, but this is enough to demonstrate that there is a path down the center of the isle of the comments that have preceded mine.
To the person who wrote this article and @ Jizzie..
You both have had promiment access to understanding Apple’s retail structure. Jizzie you’ve seen the detrimental effect to something that does not function, to functioning. However a whole different process occurs when there is no incline, such has the writer of this article been accustomed to.
Apple retail is, Apple retail. Something that people would wish to be altruistic but unfortunately to them, it’s not.
Anyway i have my own opinions, but it’s a tad obvious what that could be, but a letter to the writer: Good luck, you may get somewhere. However Johnson’s already about to make his departure to JC Penney, which means pick your battles wisely. And keep ambition to the fact apply for other jobs.
Regards.
With the whole Gay thing.
Apple hires based upon what they need.
“Hire more women”
“We need more color”
“He is too fat, she doesn’t look right”
Are all post interview conversations that I have been apart of at Apple.
Wow! You guys talk about how “out to lunch” this guys is but none of you seems to realize the grim truth about employment in todays economy. Many of you have said and I Quote “If you don’t like it there just quit!” That sounds a lot easier than it is. Finding jobs, good paying ones with benefits and such, are not at all easy in todays market. Understand?! NOT AT ALL EASY! You can’t just go out and find a job with a snap of the fingers. If you’d read the article carefully you would see that he is not bashing Apple completely he is merely stating what is wrong within the company from the retail perspective. He is not saying he wants to take Apple down, but merely he wants to help improve one of the greatest places in the world to work. I also don’t recall him saying he didn’t like working there, but that he didn’t like certain things about the job. He’s doing the right thing in trying to help improve something he cares about, i.e. his job at Apple. Any employee worth their salt would do the same at any company. Albeit maybe not in the same way. I applaud his conviction and wish him the best of luck as a fellow Apple Employee.
Oh and by the way JAMES…3 nervous breakdown in 2 years? Yet you’re in it because you love IT? That many breakdowns in such a short period really says a lot about… 1. You as a person 2. Your employer and 3. The amount of ‘Love” you really have for the field. Those I know in IT who have been in it as long as you have have not had a nervous breakdown yet. My father did it for 30 years and didn’t have one. Speaking of which most people I know who have retired from IT usually have wanted very little to nothing to do with computers after they retire. So you are right about one thing, you do have to love it to be in it. It would seem that those who aren’t trying to improve not only their work but their work conditions as well are destined for many such ‘breakdowns”. Just because you love what you do doesn’t mean you shouldn’t speak up when something is wrong. Those who “take it in the a$@” from their employers deserve what they get. Nothing personal just my two cents.
Dress is up any way you want. Apple RETAIL is a RETAIL job. Apple does a fine job trying to convince their employees otherwise and make them feel like they are changing the world by sitting at stools with old people in a suburban mall. Get real.
And just like every other retail job, they will treat you like shit and pay you like shit.
I loved my time at Apple doing what I did and I was always favorably reviewed but I always had the understanding that what I was doing what not that special. Just a cog in the wheel. Apple didn’t give a shit either way about how I felt about anything or about my “career aspirations”. Please. Get that hokey you-betcha bullshit out of here. It’s not that I got upset that they didn’t care but it’s that they pretended to care and pretended to be the most important place to work. They pretended to be the best option for your career. There was a lot of carrot dangling and a lot of manipulation. That was over 3 stores over 5 years. It’s a company culture that harbors some of the most insane nonsense this side of scientology.
Thanks but no thanks. I assumed I was hired and promoted because they respected what I could bring to the table. Then I found out when you finally get to the table, the food sucks and no one cares what you brought. Well, happily, I brought myself elsewhere and started at a wage literally double what Apple paid me to be a brainless worker bee and got promoted faster in six months than Apple ever did over five years.
A union is the best thing Apple could do in the world to save their snotty, shady image that they’ve been rolling around in for the last couple years. If this doesn’t happen, quit. No job is worth “breakdowns” or your mental health for someone else’s wallet.
“Moll said of being the voice for 30,200 retail employees” WTF? 30,200 employees do not agree with this dork.